303 distortion pedal

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303 distortion pedal

bloke@blokezero.com
Hi people!

Seeing the drum saturation thread made think.

We’re using a 10year old proco rat for distortion duties on a Future retro revolution.
Context: we’re doing a few 90’s rave classics live

Whats good: it has the scream!  (When res is high it really accentuates the upper frequencies)
Whats bad:
* poor gain structure (rat is at the minimum distortion because the input is relatively high) and sounds a little weak and fuzzy
* looses all the bass

I’ve tried some other pedals - Fulltone OCD, a bass specific OD, which makes me think that maybe overdrive isn’t the right approach, but I don’t really have any other distortion pedals to try.

Anyone with recommendations for the scream (as we’re a live band the nuance isn’t so important but that 90’s rat distortion is the right kind of sound) but with a bit more bass?  I wondered about just getting a blend pedal.  But a standalone pedal would be simpler for live.

The FR revolution has an excellent overdrive circuit in it but it isn’t right for some of the tracks we’re doing.

Cheers,

Alex
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Re: 303 distortion pedal

davidbivins
Boss HM-2!

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:45 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi people!

Seeing the drum saturation thread made think.

We’re using a 10year old proco rat for distortion duties on a Future retro revolution.
Context: we’re doing a few 90’s rave classics live

Whats good: it has the scream!  (When res is high it really accentuates the upper frequencies)
Whats bad:
* poor gain structure (rat is at the minimum distortion because the input is relatively high) and sounds a little weak and fuzzy
* looses all the bass

I’ve tried some other pedals - Fulltone OCD, a bass specific OD, which makes me think that maybe overdrive isn’t the right approach, but I don’t really have any other distortion pedals to try.

Anyone with recommendations for the scream (as we’re a live band the nuance isn’t so important but that 90’s rat distortion is the right kind of sound) but with a bit more bass?  I wondered about just getting a blend pedal.  But a standalone pedal would be simpler for live.

The FR revolution has an excellent overdrive circuit in it but it isn’t right for some of the tracks we’re doing.

Cheers,

Alex

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Re: 303 distortion pedal

Travis Thatcher
I've had amazing results with a modded Boss DS1 - i replaced the clipping diodes w red LEDs and the fet with a J201. Much creamier, rounder and thicker distortion. Instant hardfloor on a 303!

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:59 AM, David Bivins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Boss HM-2!

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:45 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi people!

Seeing the drum saturation thread made think.

We’re using a 10year old proco rat for distortion duties on a Future retro revolution.
Context: we’re doing a few 90’s rave classics live

Whats good: it has the scream!  (When res is high it really accentuates the upper frequencies)
Whats bad:
* poor gain structure (rat is at the minimum distortion because the input is relatively high) and sounds a little weak and fuzzy
* looses all the bass

I’ve tried some other pedals - Fulltone OCD, a bass specific OD, which makes me think that maybe overdrive isn’t the right approach, but I don’t really have any other distortion pedals to try.

Anyone with recommendations for the scream (as we’re a live band the nuance isn’t so important but that 90’s rat distortion is the right kind of sound) but with a bit more bass?  I wondered about just getting a blend pedal.  But a standalone pedal would be simpler for live.

The FR revolution has an excellent overdrive circuit in it but it isn’t right for some of the tracks we’re doing.

Cheers,

Alex




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Re: 303 distortion pedal

Annika Morgan
A Boss DM2w with the delay rate in the slapback range with heavy depth and just enough regen thickens up the 303 and you can use the rate knob to tune in the amount of low frequency you want. Treat it kinda like an LFO in audible range....

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 8:30 AM Travis Thatcher <[hidden email]> wrote:
I've had amazing results with a modded Boss DS1 - i replaced the clipping diodes w red LEDs and the fet with a J201. Much creamier, rounder and thicker distortion. Instant hardfloor on a 303!

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:59 AM, David Bivins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Boss HM-2!

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:45 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi people!

Seeing the drum saturation thread made think.

We’re using a 10year old proco rat for distortion duties on a Future retro revolution.
Context: we’re doing a few 90’s rave classics live

Whats good: it has the scream!  (When res is high it really accentuates the upper frequencies)
Whats bad:
* poor gain structure (rat is at the minimum distortion because the input is relatively high) and sounds a little weak and fuzzy
* looses all the bass

I’ve tried some other pedals - Fulltone OCD, a bass specific OD, which makes me think that maybe overdrive isn’t the right approach, but I don’t really have any other distortion pedals to try.

Anyone with recommendations for the scream (as we’re a live band the nuance isn’t so important but that 90’s rat distortion is the right kind of sound) but with a bit more bass?  I wondered about just getting a blend pedal.  But a standalone pedal would be simpler for live.

The FR revolution has an excellent overdrive circuit in it but it isn’t right for some of the tracks we’re doing.

Cheers,

Alex




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Re: 303 distortion pedal

Em Wilson
In reply to this post by Travis Thatcher
I use the Rat too and love it. The Trubo Rat holds low end a little better, but it's tough to get that gnarly a sound and not loose a little something off the bottom end. I feel the benefits outweigh the costs, but that's not reason not to look for something better. 


On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 8:30 AM, Travis Thatcher <[hidden email]> wrote:
I've had amazing results with a modded Boss DS1 - i replaced the clipping diodes w red LEDs and the fet with a J201. Much creamier, rounder and thicker distortion. Instant hardfloor on a 303!

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:59 AM, David Bivins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Boss HM-2!

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:45 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi people!

Seeing the drum saturation thread made think.

We’re using a 10year old proco rat for distortion duties on a Future retro revolution.
Context: we’re doing a few 90’s rave classics live

Whats good: it has the scream!  (When res is high it really accentuates the upper frequencies)
Whats bad:
* poor gain structure (rat is at the minimum distortion because the input is relatively high) and sounds a little weak and fuzzy
* looses all the bass

I’ve tried some other pedals - Fulltone OCD, a bass specific OD, which makes me think that maybe overdrive isn’t the right approach, but I don’t really have any other distortion pedals to try.

Anyone with recommendations for the scream (as we’re a live band the nuance isn’t so important but that 90’s rat distortion is the right kind of sound) but with a bit more bass?  I wondered about just getting a blend pedal.  But a standalone pedal would be simpler for live.

The FR revolution has an excellent overdrive circuit in it but it isn’t right for some of the tracks we’re doing.

Cheers,

Alex




--



--
    Data you don't have at least two copies of is data you don't care about.

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Re: 303 distortion pedal

Scott Fox
In reply to this post by bloke@blokezero.com
I recommend scoping out the Death By Audio Fuzzwar. :)

Scott Fox 

On Tue, May 1, 2018, 5:45 AM [hidden email], <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi people!

Seeing the drum saturation thread made think.

We’re using a 10year old proco rat for distortion duties on a Future retro revolution.
Context: we’re doing a few 90’s rave classics live

Whats good: it has the scream!  (When res is high it really accentuates the upper frequencies)
Whats bad:
* poor gain structure (rat is at the minimum distortion because the input is relatively high) and sounds a little weak and fuzzy
* looses all the bass

I’ve tried some other pedals - Fulltone OCD, a bass specific OD, which makes me think that maybe overdrive isn’t the right approach, but I don’t really have any other distortion pedals to try.

Anyone with recommendations for the scream (as we’re a live band the nuance isn’t so important but that 90’s rat distortion is the right kind of sound) but with a bit more bass?  I wondered about just getting a blend pedal.  But a standalone pedal would be simpler for live.

The FR revolution has an excellent overdrive circuit in it but it isn’t right for some of the tracks we’re doing.

Cheers,

Alex
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RE: 303 distortion pedal

Lorne Hammond
In reply to this post by Travis Thatcher

dod death metal and a dod grunge in series. has gain.

lorne

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Re: 303 distortion pedal

Kenny Balys-2
In reply to this post by Scott Fox

I recommend trying a re-amp box to get a little more out of the line
level 303 to guitar level pedal.

Now I have 2 of these L2A's and they are really nice:

https://www.diyrecordingequipment.com/products/l2a

These boxes have brought so much joy as any pedal can work its specific
wonders on my synths. My distortion pedal changes its character
dramatically with this thing.



On 01.05.18 14:09 , Scott Fox wrote:

> I recommend scoping out the Death By Audio Fuzzwar. :)
>
> Scott Fox
>
> On Tue, May 1, 2018, 5:45 AM [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>, <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Hi people!
>
>     Seeing the drum saturation thread made think.
>
>     We’re using a 10year old proco rat for distortion duties on a Future
>     retro revolution.
>     Context: we’re doing a few 90’s rave classics live
>
>     Whats good: it has the scream!  (When res is high it really
>     accentuates the upper frequencies)
>     Whats bad:
>     * poor gain structure (rat is at the minimum distortion because the
>     input is relatively high) and sounds a little weak and fuzzy
>     * looses all the bass
>
>     I’ve tried some other pedals - Fulltone OCD, a bass specific OD,
>     which makes me think that maybe overdrive isn’t the right approach,
>     but I don’t really have any other distortion pedals to try.
>
>     Anyone with recommendations for the scream (as we’re a live band the
>     nuance isn’t so important but that 90’s rat distortion is the right
>     kind of sound) but with a bit more bass?  I wondered about just
>     getting a blend pedal.  But a standalone pedal would be simpler for
>     live.
>
>     The FR revolution has an excellent overdrive circuit in it but it
>     isn’t right for some of the tracks we’re doing.
>
>     Cheers,
>
>     Alex
>
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Re: 303 distortion pedal

jahreed
i run distortion as a send effect on drums and acid lines and then mix the results in the DAW

(i never run my RATT distortion 100% wet)

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 10:22 AM, Kenny Balys <[hidden email]> wrote:

I recommend trying a re-amp box to get a little more out of the line level 303 to guitar level pedal.

Now I have 2 of these L2A's and they are really nice:

https://www.diyrecordingequipment.com/products/l2a

These boxes have brought so much joy as any pedal can work its specific wonders on my synths. My distortion pedal changes its character dramatically with this thing.



On 01.05.18 14:09 , Scott Fox wrote:
I recommend scoping out the Death By Audio Fuzzwar. :)

Scott Fox

On Tue, May 1, 2018, 5:45 AM [hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]>, <[hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

    Hi people!

    Seeing the drum saturation thread made think.

    We’re using a 10year old proco rat for distortion duties on a Future
    retro revolution.
    Context: we’re doing a few 90’s rave classics live

    Whats good: it has the scream!  (When res is high it really
    accentuates the upper frequencies)
    Whats bad:
    * poor gain structure (rat is at the minimum distortion because the
    input is relatively high) and sounds a little weak and fuzzy
    * looses all the bass

    I’ve tried some other pedals - Fulltone OCD, a bass specific OD,
    which makes me think that maybe overdrive isn’t the right approach,
    but I don’t really have any other distortion pedals to try.

    Anyone with recommendations for the scream (as we’re a live band the
    nuance isn’t so important but that 90’s rat distortion is the right
    kind of sound) but with a bit more bass?  I wondered about just
    getting a blend pedal.  But a standalone pedal would be simpler for
    live.

    The FR revolution has an excellent overdrive circuit in it but it
    isn’t right for some of the tracks we’re doing.

    Cheers,

    Alex


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Re: 303 distortion pedal

Henry Clay
In reply to this post by davidbivins
+1 to this, it's magic on everything I've put it on (I actually haven't tried a 303 yet, for shame!) 

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 4:59 AM, David Bivins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Boss HM-2!

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:45 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi people!

Seeing the drum saturation thread made think.

We’re using a 10year old proco rat for distortion duties on a Future retro revolution.
Context: we’re doing a few 90’s rave classics live

Whats good: it has the scream!  (When res is high it really accentuates the upper frequencies)
Whats bad:
* poor gain structure (rat is at the minimum distortion because the input is relatively high) and sounds a little weak and fuzzy
* looses all the bass

I’ve tried some other pedals - Fulltone OCD, a bass specific OD, which makes me think that maybe overdrive isn’t the right approach, but I don’t really have any other distortion pedals to try.

Anyone with recommendations for the scream (as we’re a live band the nuance isn’t so important but that 90’s rat distortion is the right kind of sound) but with a bit more bass?  I wondered about just getting a blend pedal.  But a standalone pedal would be simpler for live.

The FR revolution has an excellent overdrive circuit in it but it isn’t right for some of the tracks we’re doing.

Cheers,

Alex




--
Henry Clay
978-810-0397
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Re: 303 distortion pedal

Em Wilson

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Henry Clay <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 to this, it's magic on everything I've put it on (I actually haven't tried a 303 yet, for shame!) 

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 4:59 AM, David Bivins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Boss HM-2!

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:45 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi people!

Seeing the drum saturation thread made think.

We’re using a 10year old proco rat for distortion duties on a Future retro revolution.
Context: we’re doing a few 90’s rave classics live

Whats good: it has the scream!  (When res is high it really accentuates the upper frequencies)
Whats bad:
* poor gain structure (rat is at the minimum distortion because the input is relatively high) and sounds a little weak and fuzzy
* looses all the bass

I’ve tried some other pedals - Fulltone OCD, a bass specific OD, which makes me think that maybe overdrive isn’t the right approach, but I don’t really have any other distortion pedals to try.

Anyone with recommendations for the scream (as we’re a live band the nuance isn’t so important but that 90’s rat distortion is the right kind of sound) but with a bit more bass?  I wondered about just getting a blend pedal.  But a standalone pedal would be simpler for live.

The FR revolution has an excellent overdrive circuit in it but it isn’t right for some of the tracks we’re doing.

Cheers,

Alex




--
Henry Clay
978-810-0397



--
    Data you don't have at least two copies of is data you don't care about.

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Re: 303 distortion pedal

henrique matias
For the volume maybe you can run an attenuator between the FRR and the pedal, or just turn the volume really down on the FRR and experiment with different gain settings ( i bet you did that already! )

Also, I think a lot of times the trick is to actually mix the distortion in parallel ( like someone said on the thread ) and then have different volume levels and EQ settings for each track ( dry and distorted track ), so you can have a super controller mix between dry and wet to a "multi-band" level.



On 1 May 2018 at 16:43, Em Wilson <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Henry Clay <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 to this, it's magic on everything I've put it on (I actually haven't tried a 303 yet, for shame!) 

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 4:59 AM, David Bivins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Boss HM-2!

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:45 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi people!

Seeing the drum saturation thread made think.

We’re using a 10year old proco rat for distortion duties on a Future retro revolution.
Context: we’re doing a few 90’s rave classics live

Whats good: it has the scream!  (When res is high it really accentuates the upper frequencies)
Whats bad:
* poor gain structure (rat is at the minimum distortion because the input is relatively high) and sounds a little weak and fuzzy
* looses all the bass

I’ve tried some other pedals - Fulltone OCD, a bass specific OD, which makes me think that maybe overdrive isn’t the right approach, but I don’t really have any other distortion pedals to try.

Anyone with recommendations for the scream (as we’re a live band the nuance isn’t so important but that 90’s rat distortion is the right kind of sound) but with a bit more bass?  I wondered about just getting a blend pedal.  But a standalone pedal would be simpler for live.

The FR revolution has an excellent overdrive circuit in it but it isn’t right for some of the tracks we’re doing.

Cheers,

Alex




--
Henry Clay
978-810-0397



--
    Data you don't have at least two copies of is data you don't care about.




--
time's not passing, you are.

❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ 
❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ 
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Re: 303 distortion pedal

FlavioB
I got an MXR M-104 right now, but am waiting to get the new TS-303 --> https://www.facebook.com/Cask-Strength-Electronics-952609864852851/

F.


2018-05-01 18:32 GMT+02:00 henrique matias <[hidden email]>:
For the volume maybe you can run an attenuator between the FRR and the pedal, or just turn the volume really down on the FRR and experiment with different gain settings ( i bet you did that already! )

Also, I think a lot of times the trick is to actually mix the distortion in parallel ( like someone said on the thread ) and then have different volume levels and EQ settings for each track ( dry and distorted track ), so you can have a super controller mix between dry and wet to a "multi-band" level.



On 1 May 2018 at 16:43, Em Wilson <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Henry Clay <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 to this, it's magic on everything I've put it on (I actually haven't tried a 303 yet, for shame!) 

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 4:59 AM, David Bivins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Boss HM-2!

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:45 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi people!

Seeing the drum saturation thread made think.

We’re using a 10year old proco rat for distortion duties on a Future retro revolution.
Context: we’re doing a few 90’s rave classics live

Whats good: it has the scream!  (When res is high it really accentuates the upper frequencies)
Whats bad:
* poor gain structure (rat is at the minimum distortion because the input is relatively high) and sounds a little weak and fuzzy
* looses all the bass

I’ve tried some other pedals - Fulltone OCD, a bass specific OD, which makes me think that maybe overdrive isn’t the right approach, but I don’t really have any other distortion pedals to try.

Anyone with recommendations for the scream (as we’re a live band the nuance isn’t so important but that 90’s rat distortion is the right kind of sound) but with a bit more bass?  I wondered about just getting a blend pedal.  But a standalone pedal would be simpler for live.

The FR revolution has an excellent overdrive circuit in it but it isn’t right for some of the tracks we’re doing.

Cheers,

Alex




--
Henry Clay
978-810-0397



--
    Data you don't have at least two copies of is data you don't care about.




--
time's not passing, you are.

❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ 
❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ 

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Re: 303 distortion pedal

Kylee Kennedy
In reply to this post by henrique matias
Yes this is what I meant by running the pedal off an Aux channel. I then go from the pedal back into a free input channel. I then can set the level going to the pedal without affecting the main units input and EQ both channels to get the crunch I like from the pedal channel and EQ the bottom end of the main units channel. You can do things like have a cross over point. Main unit is just the bass and the pedal is mid-highs.
I’ve definitely learned over time and agree with the experts the EQs should be used more for cutting instead of boosting. Which should be familiar to us subtractive synth folks. :)


Kylee


On Tuesday, May 1, 2018, henrique matias <[hidden email]> wrote:
For the volume maybe you can run an attenuator between the FRR and the pedal, or just turn the volume really down on the FRR and experiment with different gain settings ( i bet you did that already! )

Also, I think a lot of times the trick is to actually mix the distortion in parallel ( like someone said on the thread ) and then have different volume levels and EQ settings for each track ( dry and distorted track ), so you can have a super controller mix between dry and wet to a "multi-band" level.



On 1 May 2018 at 16:43, Em Wilson <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Henry Clay <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 to this, it's magic on everything I've put it on (I actually haven't tried a 303 yet, for shame!) 

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 4:59 AM, David Bivins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Boss HM-2!

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:45 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi people!

Seeing the drum saturation thread made think.

We’re using a 10year old proco rat for distortion duties on a Future retro revolution.
Context: we’re doing a few 90’s rave classics live

Whats good: it has the scream!  (When res is high it really accentuates the upper frequencies)
Whats bad:
* poor gain structure (rat is at the minimum distortion because the input is relatively high) and sounds a little weak and fuzzy
* looses all the bass

I’ve tried some other pedals - Fulltone OCD, a bass specific OD, which makes me think that maybe overdrive isn’t the right approach, but I don’t really have any other distortion pedals to try.

Anyone with recommendations for the scream (as we’re a live band the nuance isn’t so important but that 90’s rat distortion is the right kind of sound) but with a bit more bass?  I wondered about just getting a blend pedal.  But a standalone pedal would be simpler for live.

The FR revolution has an excellent overdrive circuit in it but it isn’t right for some of the tracks we’re doing.

Cheers,

Alex




--
Henry Clay
978-810-0397



--
    Data you don't have at least two copies of is data you don't care about.




--
time's not passing, you are.

❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ 
❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ 
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Re: 303 distortion pedal

Jason Proctor
i used to use a Z-Vex Super Hard On boost pedal on the output of my x0xb0x to ensure anything after it lost its mind. it was particularly effective overdriving nice DIs, giving a lovely croaky sound.



On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 11:47 AM, Kylee Kennedy <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes this is what I meant by running the pedal off an Aux channel. I then go from the pedal back into a free input channel. I then can set the level going to the pedal without affecting the main units input and EQ both channels to get the crunch I like from the pedal channel and EQ the bottom end of the main units channel. You can do things like have a cross over point. Main unit is just the bass and the pedal is mid-highs.
I’ve definitely learned over time and agree with the experts the EQs should be used more for cutting instead of boosting. Which should be familiar to us subtractive synth folks. :)


Kylee


On Tuesday, May 1, 2018, henrique matias <[hidden email]> wrote:
For the volume maybe you can run an attenuator between the FRR and the pedal, or just turn the volume really down on the FRR and experiment with different gain settings ( i bet you did that already! )

Also, I think a lot of times the trick is to actually mix the distortion in parallel ( like someone said on the thread ) and then have different volume levels and EQ settings for each track ( dry and distorted track ), so you can have a super controller mix between dry and wet to a "multi-band" level.



On 1 May 2018 at 16:43, Em Wilson <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Henry Clay <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 to this, it's magic on everything I've put it on (I actually haven't tried a 303 yet, for shame!) 

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 4:59 AM, David Bivins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Boss HM-2!

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:45 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi people!

Seeing the drum saturation thread made think.

We’re using a 10year old proco rat for distortion duties on a Future retro revolution.
Context: we’re doing a few 90’s rave classics live

Whats good: it has the scream!  (When res is high it really accentuates the upper frequencies)
Whats bad:
* poor gain structure (rat is at the minimum distortion because the input is relatively high) and sounds a little weak and fuzzy
* looses all the bass

I’ve tried some other pedals - Fulltone OCD, a bass specific OD, which makes me think that maybe overdrive isn’t the right approach, but I don’t really have any other distortion pedals to try.

Anyone with recommendations for the scream (as we’re a live band the nuance isn’t so important but that 90’s rat distortion is the right kind of sound) but with a bit more bass?  I wondered about just getting a blend pedal.  But a standalone pedal would be simpler for live.

The FR revolution has an excellent overdrive circuit in it but it isn’t right for some of the tracks we’re doing.

Cheers,

Alex




--
Henry Clay
978-810-0397



--
    Data you don't have at least two copies of is data you don't care about.




--
time's not passing, you are.

❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ 
❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ 

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Re: 303 distortion pedal

henrique matias
In reply to this post by henrique matias
I get what you saying, definitely makes sense.

The way i wite things tough is most of my effects on the send channel and then i return the send through a regular track so i got one track on my mixer with distortion which i can send anything to it and blend it back!

On Tue, 1 May 2018 at 17:57, Alex Sullivan <[hidden email]> wrote:
On 1 May 2018 at 17:33:20, henrique matias ([hidden email]) wrote:
Also, I think a lot of times the trick is to actually mix the distortion in parallel ( like someone said on the thread ) and then have different volume levels and EQ settings for each track ( dry and distorted track ), so you can have a super controller mix between dry and wet to a "multi-band" level.

Because this is mainly live it’s got to be bullet proof an easily repeatable - I think some kind of attenuation is a really good call.  Lowering the level into the rat from FRR doesn’t seem to help too much, and can get really noisy.

I’m getting to like the idea of building something with a blend control and attenuation built in.

Alex

--
time's not passing, you are.

❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ 
❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ 
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Re: 303 distortion pedal

Tomislav Babic
In reply to this post by FlavioB


On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:04 PM, Boniforti Flavio <[hidden email]> wrote:
I got an MXR M-104 right now, but am waiting to get the new TS-303 --> https://www.facebook.com/Cask-Strength-Electronics-952609864852851/


uh oh i want.


when i had 303 i would either lift the gain on a mackie or used Distortion+.

currently have a barrage of dirt boxes, the customshop vintage Distortion+, several classic 
SUF big muffs and silicon and geraminum fuzzes - but no 303.  

luckily my new RE303 is at my tech's getting built as we speak. instead of TS808 i was planning
for to round my options,  would love to pair it with the new TS303 instead.  if i recall correctly 
its basically a Maxon/Ibanez tube screamer built for the synth level signal from the ground up.


ditto on getting a reamp box, cannot recommend enough.  its a problem solver for many things
 in the studio.  i use LittleLabs RedEye. uses two vintage UTC transformers one for reamp  and
 one for passive/active DI circuit. with it,  suddenly the door to all sort of gutar-pedal-synth-daw-amp 
combinations is open. pandora's box incarnation.
 

PS the most notorious impedance mismathces with synths are germanium fuzzfaces and things like
wooly mamooth. they cant work at all without a reamp. and there is also that passive pickup emulator
thingie ive yet to solder.  reportedly it makes them work even better in combination with reamp.

cheers
F.


2018-05-01 18:32 GMT+02:00 henrique matias <[hidden email]>:
For the volume maybe you can run an attenuator between the FRR and the pedal, or just turn the volume really down on the FRR and experiment with different gain settings ( i bet you did that already! )

Also, I think a lot of times the trick is to actually mix the distortion in parallel ( like someone said on the thread ) and then have different volume levels and EQ settings for each track ( dry and distorted track ), so you can have a super controller mix between dry and wet to a "multi-band" level.



On 1 May 2018 at 16:43, Em Wilson <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Henry Clay <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 to this, it's magic on everything I've put it on (I actually haven't tried a 303 yet, for shame!) 

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 4:59 AM, David Bivins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Boss HM-2!

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:45 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi people!

Seeing the drum saturation thread made think.

We’re using a 10year old proco rat for distortion duties on a Future retro revolution.
Context: we’re doing a few 90’s rave classics live

Whats good: it has the scream!  (When res is high it really accentuates the upper frequencies)
Whats bad:
* poor gain structure (rat is at the minimum distortion because the input is relatively high) and sounds a little weak and fuzzy
* looses all the bass

I’ve tried some other pedals - Fulltone OCD, a bass specific OD, which makes me think that maybe overdrive isn’t the right approach, but I don’t really have any other distortion pedals to try.

Anyone with recommendations for the scream (as we’re a live band the nuance isn’t so important but that 90’s rat distortion is the right kind of sound) but with a bit more bass?  I wondered about just getting a blend pedal.  But a standalone pedal would be simpler for live.

The FR revolution has an excellent overdrive circuit in it but it isn’t right for some of the tracks we’re doing.

Cheers,

Alex




--
Henry Clay
978-810-0397



--
    Data you don't have at least two copies of is data you don't care about.




--
time's not passing, you are.

❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ 
❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ 




--
---
Tomislav Babic
www.babic.com - studio, mp3, info
[hidden email]

www.myspace.com/nimbusdei
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Re: 303 distortion pedal

henrique matias
indeed gain staging and impedance and all those "complicated" things "nobody cares" makes a difference when playing around with pedals and old boxes and what not.

i wish there was a simple answer for all that mess

On 2 May 2018 at 01:33, Tomislav Babic <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:04 PM, Boniforti Flavio <[hidden email]> wrote:
I got an MXR M-104 right now, but am waiting to get the new TS-303 --> https://www.facebook.com/Cask-Strength-Electronics-952609864852851/


uh oh i want.


when i had 303 i would either lift the gain on a mackie or used Distortion+.

currently have a barrage of dirt boxes, the customshop vintage Distortion+, several classic 
SUF big muffs and silicon and geraminum fuzzes - but no 303.  

luckily my new RE303 is at my tech's getting built as we speak. instead of TS808 i was planning
for to round my options,  would love to pair it with the new TS303 instead.  if i recall correctly 
its basically a Maxon/Ibanez tube screamer built for the synth level signal from the ground up.


ditto on getting a reamp box, cannot recommend enough.  its a problem solver for many things
 in the studio.  i use LittleLabs RedEye. uses two vintage UTC transformers one for reamp  and
 one for passive/active DI circuit. with it,  suddenly the door to all sort of gutar-pedal-synth-daw-amp 
combinations is open. pandora's box incarnation.
 

PS the most notorious impedance mismathces with synths are germanium fuzzfaces and things like
wooly mamooth. they cant work at all without a reamp. and there is also that passive pickup emulator
thingie ive yet to solder.  reportedly it makes them work even better in combination with reamp.

cheers
F.


2018-05-01 18:32 GMT+02:00 henrique matias <[hidden email]>:
For the volume maybe you can run an attenuator between the FRR and the pedal, or just turn the volume really down on the FRR and experiment with different gain settings ( i bet you did that already! )

Also, I think a lot of times the trick is to actually mix the distortion in parallel ( like someone said on the thread ) and then have different volume levels and EQ settings for each track ( dry and distorted track ), so you can have a super controller mix between dry and wet to a "multi-band" level.



On 1 May 2018 at 16:43, Em Wilson <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Henry Clay <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 to this, it's magic on everything I've put it on (I actually haven't tried a 303 yet, for shame!) 

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 4:59 AM, David Bivins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Boss HM-2!

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:45 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi people!

Seeing the drum saturation thread made think.

We’re using a 10year old proco rat for distortion duties on a Future retro revolution.
Context: we’re doing a few 90’s rave classics live

Whats good: it has the scream!  (When res is high it really accentuates the upper frequencies)
Whats bad:
* poor gain structure (rat is at the minimum distortion because the input is relatively high) and sounds a little weak and fuzzy
* looses all the bass

I’ve tried some other pedals - Fulltone OCD, a bass specific OD, which makes me think that maybe overdrive isn’t the right approach, but I don’t really have any other distortion pedals to try.

Anyone with recommendations for the scream (as we’re a live band the nuance isn’t so important but that 90’s rat distortion is the right kind of sound) but with a bit more bass?  I wondered about just getting a blend pedal.  But a standalone pedal would be simpler for live.

The FR revolution has an excellent overdrive circuit in it but it isn’t right for some of the tracks we’re doing.

Cheers,

Alex




--
Henry Clay
978-810-0397



--
    Data you don't have at least two copies of is data you don't care about.




--
time's not passing, you are.

❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ 
❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ 




--
---
Tomislav Babic
www.babic.com - studio, mp3, info
[hidden email]

www.myspace.com/nimbusdei



--
time's not passing, you are.

❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ 
❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ 
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Re: 303 distortion pedal

Andrew Simper
The Rat's drive is a combination of slew rate limiting from the initial op-amp, and then hard clipping for a pair of diodes. If you want the same tone but to lower the high pass (to keep the bass) you could wire in another capacitor in parallel to C5:


If you put this cap on a switch then you can switch it in circuit when you want to lower the cutoff. A 47u capacitor (of the same type as is currently used in the Rat) in parallel to C5 will lower the cutoff from 1.5kHz down to around 70Hz. The other parallel capacitor path with C6 is at 60Hz, so that should be fine for lots more bass and exactly the same gain. A 47u cap is a pretty big value for cap, so they cost a few dollars each, but you only need one!

I would also recommend checking out an Ibanez Tube Screamer TS-9 DX. The TS-808 / TS-9 cut the bass way too much so aren't so useful for synths, but the TS-9 DX has a mode switch which lowers the high pass filter and swaps in different diodes, which makes it really versatile since some songs a thinner mid sound works well with low gain, but most of the time you want to distort and gain up the bottom end as well. The TS series always mix in the dry signal so you get parallel distortion of the form:

output = input + shaper (gain * highpass (input))

with low gain and low highpass you get a very parallel gentle drive sound, but when you gain it up with the TS-9 modes and then lower the output you get a pretty wet sound.

If you're ok with loading plugins and want to have a listen to what the TS-9 DX sounds like then you can grab the beta of The Scream: https://cytomic.com/scream and then grab this preset pack: https://cytomic.com/files/scream-beta-presets-2.zip , it has all the TS-9 DX modes in there so you can have a play.

Cheers,

Andy

On 2 May 2018 at 04:04, henrique matias <[hidden email]> wrote:
indeed gain staging and impedance and all those "complicated" things "nobody cares" makes a difference when playing around with pedals and old boxes and what not.

i wish there was a simple answer for all that mess

On 2 May 2018 at 01:33, Tomislav Babic <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:04 PM, Boniforti Flavio <[hidden email]> wrote:
I got an MXR M-104 right now, but am waiting to get the new TS-303 --> https://www.facebook.com/Cask-Strength-Electronics-952609864852851/


uh oh i want.


when i had 303 i would either lift the gain on a mackie or used Distortion+.

currently have a barrage of dirt boxes, the customshop vintage Distortion+, several classic 
SUF big muffs and silicon and geraminum fuzzes - but no 303.  

luckily my new RE303 is at my tech's getting built as we speak. instead of TS808 i was planning
for to round my options,  would love to pair it with the new TS303 instead.  if i recall correctly 
its basically a Maxon/Ibanez tube screamer built for the synth level signal from the ground up.


ditto on getting a reamp box, cannot recommend enough.  its a problem solver for many things
 in the studio.  i use LittleLabs RedEye. uses two vintage UTC transformers one for reamp  and
 one for passive/active DI circuit. with it,  suddenly the door to all sort of gutar-pedal-synth-daw-amp 
combinations is open. pandora's box incarnation.
 

PS the most notorious impedance mismathces with synths are germanium fuzzfaces and things like
wooly mamooth. they cant work at all without a reamp. and there is also that passive pickup emulator
thingie ive yet to solder.  reportedly it makes them work even better in combination with reamp.

cheers
F.


2018-05-01 18:32 GMT+02:00 henrique matias <[hidden email]>:
For the volume maybe you can run an attenuator between the FRR and the pedal, or just turn the volume really down on the FRR and experiment with different gain settings ( i bet you did that already! )

Also, I think a lot of times the trick is to actually mix the distortion in parallel ( like someone said on the thread ) and then have different volume levels and EQ settings for each track ( dry and distorted track ), so you can have a super controller mix between dry and wet to a "multi-band" level.



On 1 May 2018 at 16:43, Em Wilson <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Henry Clay <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 to this, it's magic on everything I've put it on (I actually haven't tried a 303 yet, for shame!) 

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 4:59 AM, David Bivins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Boss HM-2!

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:45 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi people!

Seeing the drum saturation thread made think.

We’re using a 10year old proco rat for distortion duties on a Future retro revolution.
Context: we’re doing a few 90’s rave classics live

Whats good: it has the scream!  (When res is high it really accentuates the upper frequencies)
Whats bad:
* poor gain structure (rat is at the minimum distortion because the input is relatively high) and sounds a little weak and fuzzy
* looses all the bass

I’ve tried some other pedals - Fulltone OCD, a bass specific OD, which makes me think that maybe overdrive isn’t the right approach, but I don’t really have any other distortion pedals to try.

Anyone with recommendations for the scream (as we’re a live band the nuance isn’t so important but that 90’s rat distortion is the right kind of sound) but with a bit more bass?  I wondered about just getting a blend pedal.  But a standalone pedal would be simpler for live.

The FR revolution has an excellent overdrive circuit in it but it isn’t right for some of the tracks we’re doing.

Cheers,

Alex




--
Henry Clay
978-810-0397



--
    Data you don't have at least two copies of is data you don't care about.




--
time's not passing, you are.

❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ 
❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ 




--
---
Tomislav Babic
www.babic.com - studio, mp3, info
[hidden email]

www.myspace.com/nimbusdei



--
time's not passing, you are.

❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ 
❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ 

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Re: 303 distortion pedal

Andrew Simper

On 2 May 2018 at 08:22, Andrew Simper <[hidden email]> wrote:
The Rat's drive is a combination of slew rate limiting from the initial op-amp, and then hard clipping for a pair of diodes. If you want the same tone but to lower the high pass (to keep the bass) you could wire in another capacitor in parallel to C5:


If you put this cap on a switch then you can switch it in circuit when you want to lower the cutoff. A 47u capacitor (of the same type as is currently used in the Rat) in parallel to C5 will lower the cutoff from 1.5kHz down to around 70Hz. The other parallel capacitor path with C6 is at 60Hz, so that should be fine for lots more bass and exactly the same gain. A 47u cap is a pretty big value for cap, so they cost a few dollars each, but you only need one!

I would also recommend checking out an Ibanez Tube Screamer TS-9 DX. The TS-808 / TS-9 cut the bass way too much so aren't so useful for synths, but the TS-9 DX has a mode switch which lowers the high pass filter and swaps in different diodes, which makes it really versatile since some songs a thinner mid sound works well with low gain, but most of the time you want to distort and gain up the bottom end as well. The TS series always mix in the dry signal so you get parallel distortion of the form:

output = input + shaper (gain * highpass (input))

with low gain and low highpass you get a very parallel gentle drive sound, but when you gain it up with the TS-9 modes and then lower the output you get a pretty wet sound.

If you're ok with loading plugins and want to have a listen to what the TS-9 DX sounds like then you can grab the beta of The Scream: https://cytomic.com/scream and then grab this preset pack: https://cytomic.com/files/scream-beta-presets-2.zip , it has all the TS-9 DX modes in there so you can have a play.

Cheers,

Andy

On 2 May 2018 at 04:04, henrique matias <[hidden email]> wrote:
indeed gain staging and impedance and all those "complicated" things "nobody cares" makes a difference when playing around with pedals and old boxes and what not.

i wish there was a simple answer for all that mess

On 2 May 2018 at 01:33, Tomislav Babic <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:04 PM, Boniforti Flavio <[hidden email]> wrote:
I got an MXR M-104 right now, but am waiting to get the new TS-303 --> https://www.facebook.com/Cask-Strength-Electronics-952609864852851/


uh oh i want.


when i had 303 i would either lift the gain on a mackie or used Distortion+.

currently have a barrage of dirt boxes, the customshop vintage Distortion+, several classic 
SUF big muffs and silicon and geraminum fuzzes - but no 303.  

luckily my new RE303 is at my tech's getting built as we speak. instead of TS808 i was planning
for to round my options,  would love to pair it with the new TS303 instead.  if i recall correctly 
its basically a Maxon/Ibanez tube screamer built for the synth level signal from the ground up.


ditto on getting a reamp box, cannot recommend enough.  its a problem solver for many things
 in the studio.  i use LittleLabs RedEye. uses two vintage UTC transformers one for reamp  and
 one for passive/active DI circuit. with it,  suddenly the door to all sort of gutar-pedal-synth-daw-amp 
combinations is open. pandora's box incarnation.
 

PS the most notorious impedance mismathces with synths are germanium fuzzfaces and things like
wooly mamooth. they cant work at all without a reamp. and there is also that passive pickup emulator
thingie ive yet to solder.  reportedly it makes them work even better in combination with reamp.

cheers
F.


2018-05-01 18:32 GMT+02:00 henrique matias <[hidden email]>:
For the volume maybe you can run an attenuator between the FRR and the pedal, or just turn the volume really down on the FRR and experiment with different gain settings ( i bet you did that already! )

Also, I think a lot of times the trick is to actually mix the distortion in parallel ( like someone said on the thread ) and then have different volume levels and EQ settings for each track ( dry and distorted track ), so you can have a super controller mix between dry and wet to a "multi-band" level.



On 1 May 2018 at 16:43, Em Wilson <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 10:20 AM, Henry Clay <[hidden email]> wrote:
+1 to this, it's magic on everything I've put it on (I actually haven't tried a 303 yet, for shame!) 

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 4:59 AM, David Bivins <[hidden email]> wrote:
Boss HM-2!

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:45 AM, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi people!

Seeing the drum saturation thread made think.

We’re using a 10year old proco rat for distortion duties on a Future retro revolution.
Context: we’re doing a few 90’s rave classics live

Whats good: it has the scream!  (When res is high it really accentuates the upper frequencies)
Whats bad:
* poor gain structure (rat is at the minimum distortion because the input is relatively high) and sounds a little weak and fuzzy
* looses all the bass

I’ve tried some other pedals - Fulltone OCD, a bass specific OD, which makes me think that maybe overdrive isn’t the right approach, but I don’t really have any other distortion pedals to try.

Anyone with recommendations for the scream (as we’re a live band the nuance isn’t so important but that 90’s rat distortion is the right kind of sound) but with a bit more bass?  I wondered about just getting a blend pedal.  But a standalone pedal would be simpler for live.

The FR revolution has an excellent overdrive circuit in it but it isn’t right for some of the tracks we’re doing.

Cheers,

Alex




--
Henry Clay
978-810-0397



--
    Data you don't have at least two copies of is data you don't care about.




--
time's not passing, you are.

❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ 
❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ 




--
---
Tomislav Babic
www.babic.com - studio, mp3, info
[hidden email]

www.myspace.com/nimbusdei



--
time's not passing, you are.

❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ 
❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ ❂ ❁ 


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