Synton Syrinx

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
23 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Synton Syrinx

Mark C
Not got one for sale or am able to buy one at current prices...

My question is - what would be a good analog (sorry) for the Syrinx in
Eurorack nowadays?

When digging around, the Grendel Formant Filter looks like a good match.
Do you think this matches the Syrinx? Am I reading the Syrinx filter
wrong? Or is there more to the Syrinx than the filter?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Synton Syrinx

Tomislav Babic
not really.

you need a pair of 12dB/oct state variable filters to get the setup in syrinx.

it uses a curtis 3350 chip for that.  so youre best bet soundwise is to 
pickup (long discontinued but avail used) doepfer a-121 filters.
they use cem3320 each. so not identical but very similar sonics.

oscillators are not a problem as cem3340 that are inside are available
as vco modules. doepfer a111-1,111-2 and 111-3. take your pick.


cant recall what syrinx uses as vcas but wouldnt be suprised its curtis
again.  that means old , also discontinued, a132-2 (iirc) which has 
cem3360.

this should get you the crux of the sound.

rest of the stuff, modulators lfos evnelopes etc there are many choices. 
and no point in limiting yourself once in euro domain, to whatever the 
original synton had.   

the simple but very snappy envelopes ive run into that most remind 
me of old synths especially rolands, are frequency centrals X-ENV.  
avail both new and diy.  no cv control but impossibly snappy. i have 
a pair in my euro system.

t


On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 10:08 PM, Mark C <[hidden email]> wrote:
Not got one for sale or am able to buy one at current prices...

My question is - what would be a good analog (sorry) for the Syrinx in Eurorack nowadays?

When digging around, the Grendel Formant Filter looks like a good match. Do you think this matches the Syrinx? Am I reading the Syrinx filter wrong? Or is there more to the Syrinx than the filter?



--
---
Tomislav Babic
www.babic.com - studio, mp3, info
[hidden email]

www.myspace.com/nimbusdei
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Synton Syrinx

Mark C

Thank You - it's sometimes not too easy to translate monosynth components into eurorack/doepfer equivalents - perhaps Syrinx and Crumar Spirit are the two real mysterious monosynths to me.

FC has tempted me for a while, just get the BoM sorted and I'd like to get cracking with those.

On 31/07/2017 21:39, Tomislav Babic wrote:
not really.

you need a pair of 12dB/oct state variable filters to get the setup in syrinx.

it uses a curtis 3350 chip for that.  so youre best bet soundwise is to 
pickup (long discontinued but avail used) doepfer a-121 filters.
they use cem3320 each. so not identical but very similar sonics.

oscillators are not a problem as cem3340 that are inside are available
as vco modules. doepfer a111-1,111-2 and 111-3. take your pick.


cant recall what syrinx uses as vcas but wouldnt be suprised its curtis
again.  that means old , also discontinued, a132-2 (iirc) which has 
cem3360.

this should get you the crux of the sound.

rest of the stuff, modulators lfos evnelopes etc there are many choices. 
and no point in limiting yourself once in euro domain, to whatever the 
original synton had.   

the simple but very snappy envelopes ive run into that most remind 
me of old synths especially rolands, are frequency centrals X-ENV.  
avail both new and diy.  no cv control but impossibly snappy. i have 
a pair in my euro system.

t


On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 10:08 PM, Mark C <[hidden email]> wrote:
Not got one for sale or am able to buy one at current prices...

My question is - what would be a good analog (sorry) for the Syrinx in Eurorack nowadays?

When digging around, the Grendel Formant Filter looks like a good match. Do you think this matches the Syrinx? Am I reading the Syrinx filter wrong? Or is there more to the Syrinx than the filter?



--
---
Tomislav Babic
www.babic.com - studio, mp3, info
[hidden email]

www.myspace.com/nimbusdei

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Synton Syrinx

Kylee Kennedy
If you're into DIY there's a few CEM3340 VCO's that popped up after
the new chips were put back into production. These have been
documented on Muffwiggler DIY section.

Kylee

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 2:04 PM, Mark C <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thank You - it's sometimes not too easy to translate monosynth components
> into eurorack/doepfer equivalents - perhaps Syrinx and Crumar Spirit are the
> two real mysterious monosynths to me.
>
> FC has tempted me for a while, just get the BoM sorted and I'd like to get
> cracking with those.
>
>
> On 31/07/2017 21:39, Tomislav Babic wrote:
>
> not really.
>
> you need a pair of 12dB/oct state variable filters to get the setup in
> syrinx.
>
> it uses a curtis 3350 chip for that.  so youre best bet soundwise is to
> pickup (long discontinued but avail used) doepfer a-121 filters.
> they use cem3320 each. so not identical but very similar sonics.
>
> oscillators are not a problem as cem3340 that are inside are available
> as vco modules. doepfer a111-1,111-2 and 111-3. take your pick.
>
>
> cant recall what syrinx uses as vcas but wouldnt be suprised its curtis
> again.  that means old , also discontinued, a132-2 (iirc) which has
> cem3360.
>
> this should get you the crux of the sound.
>
> rest of the stuff, modulators lfos evnelopes etc there are many choices.
> and no point in limiting yourself once in euro domain, to whatever the
> original synton had.
>
> the simple but very snappy envelopes ive run into that most remind
> me of old synths especially rolands, are frequency centrals X-ENV.
> avail both new and diy.  no cv control but impossibly snappy. i have
> a pair in my euro system.
>
> t
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 10:08 PM, Mark C <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Not got one for sale or am able to buy one at current prices...
>>
>> My question is - what would be a good analog (sorry) for the Syrinx in
>> Eurorack nowadays?
>>
>> When digging around, the Grendel Formant Filter looks like a good match.
>> Do you think this matches the Syrinx? Am I reading the Syrinx filter wrong?
>> Or is there more to the Syrinx than the filter?
>
>
>
>
> --
> ---
> Tomislav Babic
> www.babic.com - studio, mp3, info
> [hidden email]
>
> www.myspace.com/nimbusdei
>
>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Synton Syrinx

Brian Willoughby
In reply to this post by Tomislav Babic
The Synton Syrinx schematic shows:

2) CEM3310 Envelope Generator
2) CEM3340 VCO/LFO
2) CEM3350 Dual SVF
1) CEM3360 Dual VCA

If I were trying to recreate the sound of a synth like the Syrinx, I'd be careful to look out for sources of distortion that might not be present when combining the individual pieces from other sources. The op-amps are TL074/084, LM324, and 4741 (I assume the latter is a 741 variant, but haven't looked it up). There are also CA3080 and CA3140 (K.B. CV) chips. The schematic looks rather straightforward, but I would pay attention to the mixer as well as the output stage, which seems to be handled by the CEM3360, 4741, and an NPN + PNP transistor pair with a couple of diodes in the input stage that could really affect the sound. The mixer seems to be entirely resistors and switches, so perhaps the SVF clipping provides the only color there. The Syrinx runs on +/-12V power through standard 7812 + 7912 linear regulators, which probably makes it very Euro compatible if you want to recreate this.

If you could find a CEM3360 VCA and add the 4741 op-amp and NPN + PNP final stage with diodes, you might get some of the color. I didn't see part numbers for the diodes or transistors in the schematic.

Does anyone have a schematic for the Syrinx that includes all part numbers and values?

Brian


On Jul 31, 2017, at 1:39 PM, Tomislav Babic <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> not really.
>
> you need a pair of 12dB/oct state variable filters to get the setup in syrinx.
>
> it uses a curtis 3350 chip for that.  so youre best bet soundwise is to
> pickup (long discontinued but avail used) doepfer a-121 filters.
> they use cem3320 each. so not identical but very similar sonics.
>
> oscillators are not a problem as cem3340 that are inside are available
> as vco modules. doepfer a111-1,111-2 and 111-3. take your pick.
>
>
> cant recall what syrinx uses as vcas but wouldnt be suprised its curtis
> again.  that means old , also discontinued, a132-2 (iirc) which has
> cem3360.
>
> this should get you the crux of the sound.
>
> rest of the stuff, modulators lfos evnelopes etc there are many choices.
> and no point in limiting yourself once in euro domain, to whatever the
> original synton had.  
>
> the simple but very snappy envelopes ive run into that most remind
> me of old synths especially rolands, are frequency centrals X-ENV.  
> avail both new and diy.  no cv control but impossibly snappy. i have
> a pair in my euro system.
>
> t
>
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 10:08 PM, Mark C <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Not got one for sale or am able to buy one at current prices...
>>
>> My question is - what would be a good analog (sorry) for the Syrinx in Eurorack nowadays?
>>
>> When digging around, the Grendel Formant Filter looks like a good match. Do you think this matches the Syrinx? Am I reading the Syrinx filter wrong? Or is there more to the Syrinx than the filter?

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Synton Syrinx

dubsiren
If Intellijel are listening, wouldn't this be a great project ala SH-101/Atlantis? A Syrinx voice for euro?

And I am 100% sure the other posters are right about the color coming from distortions/clipping on inputs/outputs.

Sent from iMatt

> On Jul 31, 2017, at 3:33 PM, Brian Willoughby <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The Synton Syrinx schematic shows:
>
> 2) CEM3310 Envelope Generator
> 2) CEM3340 VCO/LFO
> 2) CEM3350 Dual SVF
> 1) CEM3360 Dual VCA
>
> If I were trying to recreate the sound of a synth like the Syrinx, I'd be careful to look out for sources of distortion that might not be present when combining the individual pieces from other sources. The op-amps are TL074/084, LM324, and 4741 (I assume the latter is a 741 variant, but haven't looked it up). There are also CA3080 and CA3140 (K.B. CV) chips. The schematic looks rather straightforward, but I would pay attention to the mixer as well as the output stage, which seems to be handled by the CEM3360, 4741, and an NPN + PNP transistor pair with a couple of diodes in the input stage that could really affect the sound. The mixer seems to be entirely resistors and switches, so perhaps the SVF clipping provides the only color there. The Syrinx runs on +/-12V power through standard 7812 + 7912 linear regulators, which probably makes it very Euro compatible if you want to recreate this.
>
> If you could find a CEM3360 VCA and add the 4741 op-amp and NPN + PNP final stage with diodes, you might get some of the color. I didn't see part numbers for the diodes or transistors in the schematic.
>
> Does anyone have a schematic for the Syrinx that includes all part numbers and values?
>
> Brian
>
>
>> On Jul 31, 2017, at 1:39 PM, Tomislav Babic <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> not really.
>>
>> you need a pair of 12dB/oct state variable filters to get the setup in syrinx.
>>
>> it uses a curtis 3350 chip for that.  so youre best bet soundwise is to
>> pickup (long discontinued but avail used) doepfer a-121 filters.
>> they use cem3320 each. so not identical but very similar sonics.
>>
>> oscillators are not a problem as cem3340 that are inside are available
>> as vco modules. doepfer a111-1,111-2 and 111-3. take your pick.
>>
>>
>> cant recall what syrinx uses as vcas but wouldnt be suprised its curtis
>> again.  that means old , also discontinued, a132-2 (iirc) which has
>> cem3360.
>>
>> this should get you the crux of the sound.
>>
>> rest of the stuff, modulators lfos evnelopes etc there are many choices.
>> and no point in limiting yourself once in euro domain, to whatever the
>> original synton had.  
>>
>> the simple but very snappy envelopes ive run into that most remind
>> me of old synths especially rolands, are frequency centrals X-ENV.  
>> avail both new and diy.  no cv control but impossibly snappy. i have
>> a pair in my euro system.
>>
>> t
>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 10:08 PM, Mark C <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Not got one for sale or am able to buy one at current prices...
>>>
>>> My question is - what would be a good analog (sorry) for the Syrinx in Eurorack nowadays?
>>>
>>> When digging around, the Grendel Formant Filter looks like a good match. Do you think this matches the Syrinx? Am I reading the Syrinx filter wrong? Or is there more to the Syrinx than the filter?
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Synton Syrinx

Quincas Moreira
The new Erica Synths Multimode filter is also 3320 based, albeit a slightly modernized version of the chip

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 2:39 AM, dubsiren <[hidden email]> wrote:
If Intellijel are listening, wouldn't this be a great project ala SH-101/Atlantis? A Syrinx voice for euro?

And I am 100% sure the other posters are right about the color coming from distortions/clipping on inputs/outputs.

Sent from iMatt

> On Jul 31, 2017, at 3:33 PM, Brian Willoughby <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The Synton Syrinx schematic shows:
>
> 2) CEM3310 Envelope Generator
> 2) CEM3340 VCO/LFO
> 2) CEM3350 Dual SVF
> 1) CEM3360 Dual VCA
>
> If I were trying to recreate the sound of a synth like the Syrinx, I'd be careful to look out for sources of distortion that might not be present when combining the individual pieces from other sources. The op-amps are TL074/084, LM324, and 4741 (I assume the latter is a 741 variant, but haven't looked it up). There are also CA3080 and CA3140 (K.B. CV) chips. The schematic looks rather straightforward, but I would pay attention to the mixer as well as the output stage, which seems to be handled by the CEM3360, 4741, and an NPN + PNP transistor pair with a couple of diodes in the input stage that could really affect the sound. The mixer seems to be entirely resistors and switches, so perhaps the SVF clipping provides the only color there. The Syrinx runs on +/-12V power through standard 7812 + 7912 linear regulators, which probably makes it very Euro compatible if you want to recreate this.
>
> If you could find a CEM3360 VCA and add the 4741 op-amp and NPN + PNP final stage with diodes, you might get some of the color. I didn't see part numbers for the diodes or transistors in the schematic.
>
> Does anyone have a schematic for the Syrinx that includes all part numbers and values?
>
> Brian
>
>
>> On Jul 31, 2017, at 1:39 PM, Tomislav Babic <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> not really.
>>
>> you need a pair of 12dB/oct state variable filters to get the setup in syrinx.
>>
>> it uses a curtis 3350 chip for that.  so youre best bet soundwise is to
>> pickup (long discontinued but avail used) doepfer a-121 filters.
>> they use cem3320 each. so not identical but very similar sonics.
>>
>> oscillators are not a problem as cem3340 that are inside are available
>> as vco modules. doepfer a111-1,111-2 and 111-3. take your pick.
>>
>>
>> cant recall what syrinx uses as vcas but wouldnt be suprised its curtis
>> again.  that means old , also discontinued, a132-2 (iirc) which has
>> cem3360.
>>
>> this should get you the crux of the sound.
>>
>> rest of the stuff, modulators lfos evnelopes etc there are many choices.
>> and no point in limiting yourself once in euro domain, to whatever the
>> original synton had.
>>
>> the simple but very snappy envelopes ive run into that most remind
>> me of old synths especially rolands, are frequency centrals X-ENV.
>> avail both new and diy.  no cv control but impossibly snappy. i have
>> a pair in my euro system.
>>
>> t
>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 10:08 PM, Mark C <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Not got one for sale or am able to buy one at current prices...
>>>
>>> My question is - what would be a good analog (sorry) for the Syrinx in Eurorack nowadays?
>>>
>>> When digging around, the Grendel Formant Filter looks like a good match. Do you think this matches the Syrinx? Am I reading the Syrinx filter wrong? Or is there more to the Syrinx than the filter?
>




--
Quincas Moreira
Test Pilot at VBrazil Modular
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Synton Syrinx

Tomislav Babic
In reply to this post by dubsiren


On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 9:39 AM, dubsiren <[hidden email]> wrote:
If Intellijel are listening, wouldn't this be a great project ala SH-101/Atlantis? A Syrinx voice for euro?

And I am 100% sure the other posters are right about the color coming from distortions/clipping on inputs/outputs.
 

sure it would be nice, but atlantis is a bad example for this. 

it neither uses any of the proprietary components for barebones, 
neither payed attention to mixers, vcas to copy anything from the original. 

not even real OTAs in the filter, which is perfectly doable today.  but they went simulating them with those lifeless v2164 quad vcas.  barfff.   

all together, except the arhitecture itself, none of it has anything to do with SH101.

not suprisingly the resulting sound is a clinical pristine interpretation of 
something someone somewhere (in summertime) thought sounds 
roland-ish,  but not really.


mini rant over



 


--
---
Tomislav Babic
www.babic.com - studio, mp3, info
[hidden email]

www.myspace.com/nimbusdei
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Synton Syrinx

Andre Majorel-8
On 2017-08-01 14:55 +0200, Tomislav Babic wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 9:39 AM, dubsiren <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > If Intellijel are listening, wouldn't this be a great
> > project ala SH-101/Atlantis? A Syrinx voice for euro?
> >
> > And I am 100% sure the other posters are right about the
> > color coming from distortions/clipping on inputs/outputs.
>
> sure it would be nice, but atlantis is a bad example for this.
>
> it neither uses any of the proprietary components for
> barebones, neither payed attention to mixers, vcas to copy
> anything from the original.
>
> not even real OTAs in the filter, which is perfectly doable
> today.  but they went simulating them with those lifeless
> v2164 quad vcas.  barfff.

Old story. Since David has discovered that the SSM2164 lets him
get rid of the matched transistor pair and tempco resistor, good
luck getting him to touch OTAs.

> all together, except the arhitecture itself, none of it has
> anything to do with SH101.
>
> not suprisingly the resulting sound is a clinical pristine
> interpretation of something someone somewhere (in summertime)
> thought sounds roland-ish,  but not really.

Can't speak of the Atlantis but David is not known for being
open to this sort of thing. In his opinion, there's no
difference in sound between DCOs and VCOs. If I asked him why he
instantly liked my MS-20 and instantly disliked my Mono, he'd
probably say "must be the filters".

Thanks for the entertainment. :-)

--
André Majorel http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Synton Syrinx

dubsiren
In reply to this post by Tomislav Babic
Interesting details, but Atlantis still sounds great to me, and I love the size. Sure, they didn't clone the 101, but Atlantis sounds shit-hot anyway, and it has the workflow we all love.

Syrinx'ish module, even if they got close, would be an immediate buy for me, as that synth has been on my wishlist for years. Nothing on earth sounds like that thing.

Sent from iMatt

On Aug 1, 2017, at 6:55 AM, Tomislav Babic <[hidden email]> wrote:



On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 9:39 AM, dubsiren <[hidden email]> wrote:
If Intellijel are listening, wouldn't this be a great project ala SH-101/Atlantis? A Syrinx voice for euro?

And I am 100% sure the other posters are right about the color coming from distortions/clipping on inputs/outputs.
 

sure it would be nice, but atlantis is a bad example for this. 

it neither uses any of the proprietary components for barebones, 
neither payed attention to mixers, vcas to copy anything from the original. 

not even real OTAs in the filter, which is perfectly doable today.  but they went simulating them with those lifeless v2164 quad vcas.  barfff.   

all together, except the arhitecture itself, none of it has anything to do with SH101.

not suprisingly the resulting sound is a clinical pristine interpretation of 
something someone somewhere (in summertime) thought sounds 
roland-ish,  but not really.


mini rant over



 


--
---
Tomislav Babic
www.babic.com - studio, mp3, info
[hidden email]

www.myspace.com/nimbusdei
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Synton Syrinx

skkatter
In reply to this post by Mark C
Coincidentally the Crumar Spirit uses mostly the same CEM chips as the Syrinx:

2x CEM3340 VCO, 2x CEM3350 Dual VCF, 3x CEM3360 Dual VCA

-Stephen

On 1 August 2017 at 05:04, Mark C <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thank You - it's sometimes not too easy to translate monosynth components
> into eurorack/doepfer equivalents - perhaps Syrinx and Crumar Spirit are the
> two real mysterious monosynths to me.
>
> FC has tempted me for a while, just get the BoM sorted and I'd like to get
> cracking with those.
>
>
> On 31/07/2017 21:39, Tomislav Babic wrote:
>
> not really.
>
> you need a pair of 12dB/oct state variable filters to get the setup in
> syrinx.
>
> it uses a curtis 3350 chip for that.  so youre best bet soundwise is to
> pickup (long discontinued but avail used) doepfer a-121 filters.
> they use cem3320 each. so not identical but very similar sonics.
>
> oscillators are not a problem as cem3340 that are inside are available
> as vco modules. doepfer a111-1,111-2 and 111-3. take your pick.
>
>
> cant recall what syrinx uses as vcas but wouldnt be suprised its curtis
> again.  that means old , also discontinued, a132-2 (iirc) which has
> cem3360.
>
> this should get you the crux of the sound.
>
> rest of the stuff, modulators lfos evnelopes etc there are many choices.
> and no point in limiting yourself once in euro domain, to whatever the
> original synton had.
>
> the simple but very snappy envelopes ive run into that most remind
> me of old synths especially rolands, are frequency centrals X-ENV.
> avail both new and diy.  no cv control but impossibly snappy. i have
> a pair in my euro system.
>
> t
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 10:08 PM, Mark C <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Not got one for sale or am able to buy one at current prices...
>>
>> My question is - what would be a good analog (sorry) for the Syrinx in
>> Eurorack nowadays?
>>
>> When digging around, the Grendel Formant Filter looks like a good match.
>> Do you think this matches the Syrinx? Am I reading the Syrinx filter wrong?
>> Or is there more to the Syrinx than the filter?
>
>
>
>
> --
> ---
> Tomislav Babic
> www.babic.com - studio, mp3, info
> [hidden email]
>
> www.myspace.com/nimbusdei
>
>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Synton Syrinx

Brian Willoughby
In reply to this post by dubsiren
What is it about that Syrinx that sounds different from everything else? Are there any recordings that exemplify this uniqueness?

I've seen them on eBay, but never had the winning bid. If someone in Seattle has a Syrinx, I'd love to hear one in person - maybe side-by-side with some of my synths.

There's a method to my line of questioning. If we can determine what makes the Syrinx sound special - in terms of settings or whatever it is - then we might be able to recreate that sound.

Brian


On Aug 1, 2017, at 11:58 AM, dubsiren <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Syrinx'ish module, even if they got close, would be an immediate buy for me, as that synth has been on my wishlist for years. Nothing on earth sounds like that thing.
>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Synton Syrinx

Florian Anwander-2
Hello Brian

Am 02.08.2017 um 10:00 schrieb Brian Willoughby:
> What is it about that Syrinx that sounds different from everything else? Are there any recordings that exemplify this uniqueness?
There are several aspects:

These completely CEM based synths with the early generation CEMs do
simply sound good. The envelopes are perfectly shaped. The sounds can
hit you with their dynamics like the "ice pick in the forehead".

Another aspect is the dual filter, which can be combined in a lot of
ways and can be modulated separately (if I remember right, even by VCO2).

And finally it is again a synth with the right parameter dimensions.
There is nowhere a slider, that ends in a useless range; similar to
Roland synths the handling is incredibly well balanced.

Florian

--
http://www.florian-anwander.de

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Synton Syrinx

dubsiren
One thing I noticed when I played a Syrinx, is that with the oscillators cranked, and especially when using ring mod, the filters seemed like they were on the edge of distortion and just sounded like a buzz saw. It was beautiful. 

This video gets pretty close to what I experienced.


On Aug 2, 2017, at 2:21 AM, Florian Anwander <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Brian

Am 02.08.2017 um 10:00 schrieb Brian Willoughby:
What is it about that Syrinx that sounds different from everything else? Are there any recordings that exemplify this uniqueness?
There are several aspects:

These completely CEM based synths with the early generation CEMs do simply sound good. The envelopes are perfectly shaped. The sounds can hit you with their dynamics like the "ice pick in the forehead".

Another aspect is the dual filter, which can be combined in a lot of ways and can be modulated separately (if I remember right, even by VCO2).

And finally it is again a synth with the right parameter dimensions. There is nowhere a slider, that ends in a useless range; similar to Roland synths the handling is incredibly well balanced.

Florian

--
http://www.florian-anwander.de

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

RE: Synton Syrinx

Peter Forrest
In reply to this post by skkatter
Maybe the Spirit / Syrinx similarity is not altogether co-incidental, since Bob Moog did a hell of a lot of synth design talking with Felix Visser of Synton.
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: skkatter [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 02 August 2017 07:44
To: Mark C
Cc: AH
Subject: Re: [AH] Synton Syrinx

Coincidentally the Crumar Spirit uses mostly the same CEM chips as the Syrinx:

2x CEM3340 VCO, 2x CEM3350 Dual VCF, 3x CEM3360 Dual VCA

-Stephen

On 1 August 2017 at 05:04, Mark C <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thank You - it's sometimes not too easy to translate monosynth
> components into eurorack/doepfer equivalents - perhaps Syrinx and
> Crumar Spirit are the two real mysterious monosynths to me.
>
> FC has tempted me for a while, just get the BoM sorted and I'd like to
> get cracking with those.
>
>
> On 31/07/2017 21:39, Tomislav Babic wrote:
>
> not really.
>
> you need a pair of 12dB/oct state variable filters to get the setup in
> syrinx.
>
> it uses a curtis 3350 chip for that.  so youre best bet soundwise is
> to pickup (long discontinued but avail used) doepfer a-121 filters.
> they use cem3320 each. so not identical but very similar sonics.
>
> oscillators are not a problem as cem3340 that are inside are available
> as vco modules. doepfer a111-1,111-2 and 111-3. take your pick.
>
>
> cant recall what syrinx uses as vcas but wouldnt be suprised its
> curtis again.  that means old , also discontinued, a132-2 (iirc) which
> has cem3360.
>
> this should get you the crux of the sound.
>
> rest of the stuff, modulators lfos evnelopes etc there are many choices.
> and no point in limiting yourself once in euro domain, to whatever the
> original synton had.
>
> the simple but very snappy envelopes ive run into that most remind me
> of old synths especially rolands, are frequency centrals X-ENV.
> avail both new and diy.  no cv control but impossibly snappy. i have a
> pair in my euro system.
>
> t
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 10:08 PM, Mark C <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> Not got one for sale or am able to buy one at current prices...
>>
>> My question is - what would be a good analog (sorry) for the Syrinx
>> in Eurorack nowadays?
>>
>> When digging around, the Grendel Formant Filter looks like a good match.
>> Do you think this matches the Syrinx? Am I reading the Syrinx filter wrong?
>> Or is there more to the Syrinx than the filter?
>
>
>
>
> --
> ---
> Tomislav Babic
> www.babic.com - studio, mp3, info
> [hidden email]
>
> www.myspace.com/nimbusdei
>
>

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Synton Syrinx

thighp
In reply to this post by dubsiren
Rather like trying to recreate an EMS Synthi A in Eurorack I feel the Syrinx is far more than a sum of its parts.

All the controls interact in a very organic way and subtleties the filters are capable of seem difficult to achieve with other  modules.  I have a Syrinx and also some Synton 3000 series modular filters and a Fenix and none of them are capable to reproducing the Syrinx sound.  I know, I’ve tried.

The other wonderful features of the Syrinx are the oscillator sync which can be soft or hard and the amazing pitch bend pad.  It’s by far my favourite pitch bender.  I wish I had one on my Minimoog!

Thighp.




On 02 Aug 2017, at 09:32, dubsiren <[hidden email]> wrote:

One thing I noticed when I played a Syrinx, is that with the oscillators cranked, and especially when using ring mod, the filters seemed like they were on the edge of distortion and just sounded like a buzz saw. It was beautiful. 

This video gets pretty close to what I experienced.


On Aug 2, 2017, at 2:21 AM, Florian Anwander <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Brian

Am 02.08.2017 um 10:00 schrieb Brian Willoughby:
What is it about that Syrinx that sounds different from everything else? Are there any recordings that exemplify this uniqueness?
There are several aspects:

These completely CEM based synths with the early generation CEMs do simply sound good. The envelopes are perfectly shaped. The sounds can hit you with their dynamics like the "ice pick in the forehead".

Another aspect is the dual filter, which can be combined in a lot of ways and can be modulated separately (if I remember right, even by VCO2).

And finally it is again a synth with the right parameter dimensions. There is nowhere a slider, that ends in a useless range; similar to Roland synths the handling is incredibly well balanced.

Florian

--
http://www.florian-anwander.de


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Synton Syrinx

Florian Anwander-2
In reply to this post by dubsiren
Hi

Am 02.08.2017 um 10:32 schrieb dubsiren:
> This video gets pretty close to what I experienced.
>
> https://youtu.be/TlG50fmOg9o
>
You may check out this album of Thomas P Heckmann.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTgPLRl9eKE

As far as I can judge it, it is full of Syrinx sounds. Already the
opening sound should be a Syrinx. Very prominently is the sequence
starting after 23:00.

Florian

--
http://www.florian-anwander.de

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Synton Syrinx

dubsiren
In reply to this post by thighp
Agree.

I had a long talk with a childhood friend who is a synth builder, and he said this is the pitfall of eurorack. A full, non-modular synth is calibrated internally, by the maker, to have levels between sections in the sweet spots. Euro have different modules with different levels on inputs and outputs, and unless you add amplifiers before each input, there might be lovely things you are missing because you are not hitting the input hard enough due to a weak output from ANOTHER module. I have run into this time and time again on my system. And always it is a module with out control of input level. Bastards.

This is why I like the idea of full "voice" modules like Atlantis, and would love something similar for a Syrinx voice.

Sent from iMatt

On Aug 2, 2017, at 2:45 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

Rather like trying to recreate an EMS Synthi A in Eurorack I feel the Syrinx is far more than a sum of its parts.

All the controls interact in a very organic way and subtleties the filters are capable of seem difficult to achieve with other  modules.  I have a Syrinx and also some Synton 3000 series modular filters and a Fenix and none of them are capable to reproducing the Syrinx sound.  I know, I’ve tried.

The other wonderful features of the Syrinx are the oscillator sync which can be soft or hard and the amazing pitch bend pad.  It’s by far my favourite pitch bender.  I wish I had one on my Minimoog!

Thighp.




On 02 Aug 2017, at 09:32, dubsiren <[hidden email]> wrote:

One thing I noticed when I played a Syrinx, is that with the oscillators cranked, and especially when using ring mod, the filters seemed like they were on the edge of distortion and just sounded like a buzz saw. It was beautiful. 

This video gets pretty close to what I experienced.


On Aug 2, 2017, at 2:21 AM, Florian Anwander <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Brian

Am 02.08.2017 um 10:00 schrieb Brian Willoughby:
What is it about that Syrinx that sounds different from everything else? Are there any recordings that exemplify this uniqueness?
There are several aspects:

These completely CEM based synths with the early generation CEMs do simply sound good. The envelopes are perfectly shaped. The sounds can hit you with their dynamics like the "ice pick in the forehead".

Another aspect is the dual filter, which can be combined in a lot of ways and can be modulated separately (if I remember right, even by VCO2).

And finally it is again a synth with the right parameter dimensions. There is nowhere a slider, that ends in a useless range; similar to Roland synths the handling is incredibly well balanced.

Florian

--
http://www.florian-anwander.de


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Synton Syrinx

Mark C
I guess this is an appeal of something like the Roland 100M with the attenuators on all inputs. And the modules should be made to match.

Mixing and matching eurorack you have to sometimes attenuate at input or at output or even use something inbetween.

On 2 Aug 2017 10:30, "dubsiren" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Agree.

I had a long talk with a childhood friend who is a synth builder, and he said this is the pitfall of eurorack. A full, non-modular synth is calibrated internally, by the maker, to have levels between sections in the sweet spots. Euro have different modules with different levels on inputs and outputs, and unless you add amplifiers before each input, there might be lovely things you are missing because you are not hitting the input hard enough due to a weak output from ANOTHER module. I have run into this time and time again on my system. And always it is a module with out control of input level. Bastards.

This is why I like the idea of full "voice" modules like Atlantis, and would love something similar for a Syrinx voice.

Sent from iMatt

On Aug 2, 2017, at 2:45 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

Rather like trying to recreate an EMS Synthi A in Eurorack I feel the Syrinx is far more than a sum of its parts.

All the controls interact in a very organic way and subtleties the filters are capable of seem difficult to achieve with other  modules.  I have a Syrinx and also some Synton 3000 series modular filters and a Fenix and none of them are capable to reproducing the Syrinx sound.  I know, I’ve tried.

The other wonderful features of the Syrinx are the oscillator sync which can be soft or hard and the amazing pitch bend pad.  It’s by far my favourite pitch bender.  I wish I had one on my Minimoog!

Thighp.




On 02 Aug 2017, at 09:32, dubsiren <[hidden email]> wrote:

One thing I noticed when I played a Syrinx, is that with the oscillators cranked, and especially when using ring mod, the filters seemed like they were on the edge of distortion and just sounded like a buzz saw. It was beautiful. 

This video gets pretty close to what I experienced.


On Aug 2, 2017, at 2:21 AM, Florian Anwander <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Brian

Am 02.08.2017 um 10:00 schrieb Brian Willoughby:
What is it about that Syrinx that sounds different from everything else? Are there any recordings that exemplify this uniqueness?
There are several aspects:

These completely CEM based synths with the early generation CEMs do simply sound good. The envelopes are perfectly shaped. The sounds can hit you with their dynamics like the "ice pick in the forehead".

Another aspect is the dual filter, which can be combined in a lot of ways and can be modulated separately (if I remember right, even by VCO2).

And finally it is again a synth with the right parameter dimensions. There is nowhere a slider, that ends in a useless range; similar to Roland synths the handling is incredibly well balanced.

Florian

--
http://www.florian-anwander.de


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Synton Syrinx

thighp
Hi,

I’m sorry, but I’m not sure where you got the idea that I’m selling mine.  I would never part with my Syrinx.

I’d also have to strongly disagree that the Syrinx “doesn’t sound all that special”.  As I may have mentioned in previous posts I have tried to recreate the Syrinx sound using other Synton filters and failed.  The instrument is definitely more than a sum of its parts and the user interface, although initially a little confusing, once mastered is a total joy.

Best wishes,

Thighp.



On 16 Aug 2017, at 12:00, Thevoid <[hidden email]> wrote:

I've had a few Syrinx's over the years and can honestly say it doesn't sound all that special to me. The filter section if anything is it's high point, but anything with two filters can sound similar.

One of the participants here in this discussion ([hidden email]) happens to be selling one for nearly $20,000 if someone wants to experience one.
On Wednesday, August 2, 2017, 4:52:22 AM PDT, Mark C <[hidden email]> wrote:


I guess this is an appeal of something like the Roland 100M with the attenuators on all inputs. And the modules should be made to match.

Mixing and matching eurorack you have to sometimes attenuate at input or at output or even use something inbetween.

On 2 Aug 2017 10:30, "dubsiren" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Agree.

I had a long talk with a childhood friend who is a synth builder, and he said this is the pitfall of eurorack. A full, non-modular synth is calibrated internally, by the maker, to have levels between sections in the sweet spots. Euro have different modules with different levels on inputs and outputs, and unless you add amplifiers before each input, there might be lovely things you are missing because you are not hitting the input hard enough due to a weak output from ANOTHER module. I have run into this time and time again on my system. And always it is a module with out control of input level. Bastards.

This is why I like the idea of full "voice" modules like Atlantis, and would love something similar for a Syrinx voice.

Sent from iMatt

On Aug 2, 2017, at 2:45 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

Rather like trying to recreate an EMS Synthi A in Eurorack I feel the Syrinx is far more than a sum of its parts.

All the controls interact in a very organic way and subtleties the filters are capable of seem difficult to achieve with other  modules.  I have a Syrinx and also some Synton 3000 series modular filters and a Fenix and none of them are capable to reproducing the Syrinx sound.  I know, I’ve tried.

The other wonderful features of the Syrinx are the oscillator sync which can be soft or hard and the amazing pitch bend pad.  It’s by far my favourite pitch bender.  I wish I had one on my Minimoog!

Thighp.




On 02 Aug 2017, at 09:32, dubsiren <[hidden email]> wrote:

One thing I noticed when I played a Syrinx, is that with the oscillators cranked, and especially when using ring mod, the filters seemed like they were on the edge of distortion and just sounded like a buzz saw. It was beautiful. 

This video gets pretty close to what I experienced.


On Aug 2, 2017, at 2:21 AM, Florian Anwander <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello Brian

Am 02.08.2017 um 10:00 schrieb Brian Willoughby:
What is it about that Syrinx that sounds different from everything else? Are there any recordings that exemplify this uniqueness?
There are several aspects:

These completely CEM based synths with the early generation CEMs do simply sound good. The envelopes are perfectly shaped. The sounds can hit you with their dynamics like the "ice pick in the forehead".

Another aspect is the dual filter, which can be combined in a lot of ways and can be modulated separately (if I remember right, even by VCO2).

And finally it is again a synth with the right parameter dimensions. There is nowhere a slider, that ends in a useless range; similar to Roland synths the handling is incredibly well balanced.

Florian

--
http://www.florian-anwander.de



12
Loading...