World (Synth) War II ?

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World (Synth) War II ?

Kenny Balys-2
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Re: World (Synth) War II ?

Phil a
amazing how Behringer seems incapable of having an idea. They just troll. They announce an Odyssey clone after Korg announces one, a Mini clone after Moog announces one, a 101 clone after Roland announces one, etc...
why can't they develop their own Deepmind product line ?
they behave just like bankers do...



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Re: World (Synth) War II ?

negativesaucer
I hope they make some legal mistake and Roland sues them out of business.

On Aug 12, 2017 9:58 AM, "Phil a" <[hidden email]> wrote:
amazing how Behringer seems incapable of having an idea. They just troll. They announce an Odyssey clone after Korg announces one, a Mini clone after Moog announces one, a 101 clone after Roland announces one, etc...
why can't they develop their own Deepmind product line ?
they behave just like bankers do...



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Re: World (Synth) War II ?

M V-5
I say kudos to Behringer for giving the people exactly what they want. You can't fault them for targeting a blindingly obvious market. Roland are the far more culpable party, knocking out derivative crap for years and then not even able to nail their own stuff when they finally decide to clone it.
From: negativesaucer <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2017 11:59:39 AM
To: Phil a
Cc: Kenny Balys; Analogue Heaven
Subject: Re: [AH] World (Synth) War II ?
 
I hope they make some legal mistake and Roland sues them out of business.

On Aug 12, 2017 9:58 AM, "Phil a" <[hidden email]> wrote:
amazing how Behringer seems incapable of having an idea. They just troll. They announce an Odyssey clone after Korg announces one, a Mini clone after Moog announces one, a 101 clone after Roland announces one, etc...
why can't they develop their own Deepmind product line ?
they behave just like bankers do...



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Re: World (Synth) War II ?

Quincas Moreira
In reply to this post by negativesaucer
Damm, why all the Behringer hate? I for one, coming from Brazil where you make 1/4 of what an american makes and have to pay 4X the price for gear due to ridiculous import taxes, Behringer has saved my ass many times. They are a business, Uli is in it to make money, he sees a demand and fills it. The DM12 looks like a fine synth, their newer mixers with Midas preamps look great too, and so far what I've heard of the 300 usd model D sounds quite nice. I'm glad kids (and grownups) now can have access to a hardware 3 osc monosynth with patchpoints for so litlle.  I have no stake with Behringer but despite the poor quality of their older products, they allowed me to keep working when I wouldn't have been able to otherwise. And I recognize the company has grown and improved a lot in recent years. I'll keep watching with great interest, while recording my drums with their 60 usd matched condenser pair, controlling my Juno with their BCR2000, and possibly owning a model D soon just for kicks.

"You record drums with 60 dollar mics, Quincas??"  Yes, they don't sound great flat but a little eq goes a long way. Never heard a client complain about my overhead drum sounds :)



On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 10:59 AM, negativesaucer <[hidden email]> wrote:
I hope they make some legal mistake and Roland sues them out of business.

On Aug 12, 2017 9:58 AM, "Phil a" <[hidden email]> wrote:
amazing how Behringer seems incapable of having an idea. They just troll. They announce an Odyssey clone after Korg announces one, a Mini clone after Moog announces one, a 101 clone after Roland announces one, etc...
why can't they develop their own Deepmind product line ?
they behave just like bankers do...






--
Quincas Moreira
Test Pilot at VBrazil Modular
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Re: World (Synth) War II ?

Em Wilson
I'm stoked for it, if only because it's in a form factor I more fully dig than the boutique line. 

On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Quincas Moreira <[hidden email]> wrote:
Damm, why all the Behringer hate? I for one, coming from Brazil where you make 1/4 of what an american makes and have to pay 4X the price for gear due to ridiculous import taxes, Behringer has saved my ass many times. They are a business, Uli is in it to make money, he sees a demand and fills it. The DM12 looks like a fine synth, their newer mixers with Midas preamps look great too, and so far what I've heard of the 300 usd model D sounds quite nice. I'm glad kids (and grownups) now can have access to a hardware 3 osc monosynth with patchpoints for so litlle.  I have no stake with Behringer but despite the poor quality of their older products, they allowed me to keep working when I wouldn't have been able to otherwise. And I recognize the company has grown and improved a lot in recent years. I'll keep watching with great interest, while recording my drums with their 60 usd matched condenser pair, controlling my Juno with their BCR2000, and possibly owning a model D soon just for kicks.

"You record drums with 60 dollar mics, Quincas??"  Yes, they don't sound great flat but a little eq goes a long way. Never heard a client complain about my overhead drum sounds :)


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Re: Re: [AH] World (Synth) War II ?

Laurie Curry
In reply to this post by negativesaucer
I hope roland does something right and get back in the game...

---- On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:59:39 -0500 negativesaucer <[hidden email]> wrote ----
I hope they make some legal mistake and Roland sues them out of business.

On Aug 12, 2017 9:58 AM, "Phil a" <[hidden email]> wrote:
amazing how Behringer seems incapable of having an idea. They just troll. They announce an Odyssey clone after Korg announces one, a Mini clone after Moog announces one, a 101 clone after Roland announces one, etc...
why can't they develop their own Deepmind product line ?
they behave just like bankers do...





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Re: Re: [AH] World (Synth) War II ?

Justin Maxwell
the se02 is right

On Aug 12, 2017 at 12:33 PM, laurie <[hidden email]> wrote:


I hope roland does something right and get back in the game...

---- On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:59:39 -0500 negativesaucer <[hidden email]> wrote ----
I hope they make some legal mistake and Roland sues them out of business.

On Aug 12, 2017 9:58 AM, "Phil a" < [hidden email]> wrote:
amazing how Behringer seems incapable of having an idea. They just troll. They announce an Odyssey clone after Korg announces one, a Mini clone after Moog announces one, a 101 clone after Roland announces one, etc...
why can't they develop their own Deepmind product line ?
they behave just like bankers do...





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Re: Re: [AH] World (Synth) War II ?

DJ Maytag
In reply to this post by Laurie Curry
See the SE-02. It'd be fantastic on its own. It's even more amazing with its sequencer. Don't fall prey to the price comparison between this and the Ulimoog. It's worth it to spring for the Roland.

Mitch

On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 2:34 PM laurie <[hidden email]> wrote:
I hope roland does something right and get back in the game...

---- On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:59:39 -0500 negativesaucer <[hidden email]> wrote ----
I hope they make some legal mistake and Roland sues them out of business.

On Aug 12, 2017 9:58 AM, "Phil a" <[hidden email]> wrote:
amazing how Behringer seems incapable of having an idea. They just troll. They announce an Odyssey clone after Korg announces one, a Mini clone after Moog announces one, a 101 clone after Roland announces one, etc...
why can't they develop their own Deepmind product line ?
they behave just like bankers do...




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Re: Re: Re: [AH] World (Synth) War II ?

Laurie Curry
In reply to this post by Justin Maxwell
that is one move..... the game has been revisited for a round, I hope they get back into the game as a player...


---- On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 15:57:26 -0500 Justin Maxwell <[hidden email]> wrote ----
the se02 is right

On Aug 12, 2017 at 12:33 PM, laurie <[hidden email]> wrote:


I hope roland does something right and get back in the game...

---- On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 10:59:39 -0500 negativesaucer <[hidden email]> wrote ----
I hope they make some legal mistake and Roland sues them out of business.

On Aug 12, 2017 9:58 AM, "Phil a" < [hidden email]> wrote:
amazing how Behringer seems incapable of having an idea. They just troll. They announce an Odyssey clone after Korg announces one, a Mini clone after Moog announces one, a 101 clone after Roland announces one, etc...
why can't they develop their own Deepmind product line ?
they behave just like bankers do...







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Re: World (Synth) War II ?

Marshall Craig
In reply to this post by Laurie Curry
Would love to see a nice Roland 8-voice Poly...

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2017, at 12:33, laurie <[hidden email]> wrote:

I hope roland does something right and get back in the game...
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Re: World (Synth) War II ?

Quincas Moreira
JD XA is an amazing and underrated polysynth, IMO

On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Marshall Craig <[hidden email]> wrote:
Would love to see a nice Roland 8-voice Poly...

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2017, at 12:33, laurie <[hidden email]> wrote:

I hope roland does something right and get back in the game...



--
Quincas Moreira
Test Pilot at VBrazil Modular
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Re: World (Synth) War II ?

DJ Maytag
It's pretty amazing that there is SO MUCH cool new gear coming out. The bummer is that it's all hitting so fast that it's hard to keep up much less buy everything that looks pretty cool.

As much as I'd love to grab a bunch of it, I'd pretty much have to give up the pursuit of my modular system if I wanted to start snapping up the cool new non-modular instruments.

Mitch
On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 4:47 PM Quincas Moreira <[hidden email]> wrote:
JD XA is an amazing and underrated polysynth, IMO

On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 4:34 PM, Marshall Craig <[hidden email]> wrote:
Would love to see a nice Roland 8-voice Poly...

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2017, at 12:33, laurie <[hidden email]> wrote:

I hope roland does something right and get back in the game...



--
Quincas Moreira
Test Pilot at VBrazil Modular
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Re: World (Synth) War II ?

Phil a
In reply to this post by Quincas Moreira
On 12 August 2017 at 18:58, Quincas Moreira <[hidden email]> wrote:
Damm, why all the Behringer hate? 

??
Not sure what "hate" you are referring to, as in my words there is not a speck of hate, just facts. They have definitely imitated others again and again making announcements in the very next weeks of the announcement of the product they are copying (if not the same week). Tell me what other company does that ?
Offering cheap products is totally cool. Who said anything to the contrary ? Yet they are far from being the only company to offer $300 analog synths around. Offering approximate clones is also OK. I'm not even commenting bad build quality since I haven't touched any of these new products, those are not my point. My point is repeated direct imitation of what the competition does.
When Yamaha did the Reface series, Roland quickly released the Boutiques, fair enough. Roland didn't release a clone of the DX-7, CP80 or CS-80, that would be behringering to me. Hope you see better the difference now.

"Uli is in it to make money, he sees a demand and fills it." Nope sorry, "he sees an offering and copies it" is more like it.
Makes me think of that sentence which was more or less "success is not when you win, it's when you win AND destroy your competition".

If I had to speculate I would say it looks like he had to hire "synth" people to put out the DM12 and hired them for the period of time he thought he could afford with the sales expectations he had for the DM12. Since the DM12 is not selling all the thousands he hoped for, he has to release in a hurry the most synth products he can to pay those people, hence all the zero development/maximum free hype products currently released... 
Maybe this is not what's actually happening, and maybe this is.

Phil


On 12 August 2017 at 18:58, Quincas Moreira <[hidden email]> wrote:
Damm, why all the Behringer hate? I for one, coming from Brazil where you make 1/4 of what an american makes and have to pay 4X the price for gear due to ridiculous import taxes, Behringer has saved my ass many times. They are a business, Uli is in it to make money, he sees a demand and fills it. The DM12 looks like a fine synth, their newer mixers with Midas preamps look great too, and so far what I've heard of the 300 usd model D sounds quite nice. I'm glad kids (and grownups) now can have access to a hardware 3 osc monosynth with patchpoints for so litlle.  I have no stake with Behringer but despite the poor quality of their older products, they allowed me to keep working when I wouldn't have been able to otherwise. And I recognize the company has grown and improved a lot in recent years. I'll keep watching with great interest, while recording my drums with their 60 usd matched condenser pair, controlling my Juno with their BCR2000, and possibly owning a model D soon just for kicks.

"You record drums with 60 dollar mics, Quincas??"  Yes, they don't sound great flat but a little eq goes a long way. Never heard a client complain about my overhead drum sounds :)



On Sat, Aug 12, 2017 at 10:59 AM, negativesaucer <[hidden email]> wrote:
I hope they make some legal mistake and Roland sues them out of business.

On Aug 12, 2017 9:58 AM, "Phil a" <[hidden email]> wrote:
amazing how Behringer seems incapable of having an idea. They just troll. They announce an Odyssey clone after Korg announces one, a Mini clone after Moog announces one, a 101 clone after Roland announces one, etc...
why can't they develop their own Deepmind product line ?
they behave just like bankers do...






--
Quincas Moreira
Test Pilot at VBrazil Modular

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Re: World (Synth) War II ?

Ben Bradley
In reply to this post by negativesaucer
> I hope they make some legal mistake and Roland sues them out of business.

Behringer has made legal mistakes before, been sued, gone to court,
and somehow won anyway.

>"Uli is in it to make money, he sees a demand and fills it." Nope sorry, "he sees an offering and copies it" is more like it.

When most companies release or re-release a product, it's usually
after spending money to determine if there's enough market demand to
succeed at making the product. Behringer announcing products like this
is riding on the other companies' coattails.
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Re: World (Synth) War II ?

Brian Willoughby
In reply to this post by Phil a
It's quite an exaggeration to refer to the Behringer products as "zero development." You might be surprised how much boring and painstaking work goes into a new product, even if you steal the schematic. Granted, based on the quality, Behringer probably does a bit less work than other companies, but there is still a lot to design a PCB, make a case, set up a manufacturing line, and countless other tasks. For products that use firmware, that's almost entirely new development, although I admit that the D probably doesn't have much firmware other than the USB-MIDI interface.

I'm not being a Behringer apologist, I just know that even all of their shortcuts don't mean they're doing zero development. Yes, they're doing as little as possible, but it's nowhere near zero work or else everyone would be doing it (and probably better than Behringer!).

On this note, but looking at it from the opposite angle, I'm completely baffled that companies will release a mini-keyboard edition of a synth and then follow up with a full-sized keyboard edition of the exact same synth. The amount of design-for-manufacturing effort is doubled! Seems like they could maximize profits by skipping all of the mini-keyboard design work and just release the full-sized keyboard straightaway.

Brian


On Aug 12, 2017, at 3:54 PM, Phil a <[hidden email]> wrote:
> If I had to speculate I would say it looks like he had to hire "synth" people to put out the DM12 and hired them for the period of time he thought he could afford with the sales expectations he had for the DM12. Since the DM12 is not selling all the thousands he hoped for, he has to release in a hurry the most synth products he can to pay those people, hence all the zero development/maximum free hype products currently released...
> Maybe this is not what's actually happening, and maybe this is.

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